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Games with permanent incompatability with MZX 2.8+ Don't post BUG REPORTS here, thanks.

#1 User is offline   Terryn 

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 08:15 PM

This is a list of games that will work differently in the port through no fault of the port but through limit changes and general bad practices. These are the few games that, in their unpatched state, need to be played in 2.70 for full effect.

* Games that exploit the set local random -32768 32767 crash (#mzxmzx.mzx is the only one I can think of offhand).

* Trashman Dan - Dialog boxes are (even more) broken due to using a negative number as a check against a string char. The port changed string char checks to unsigned, so this trick doesn't work in the port.

* Partition Magic Pro: The Game - At one point, you'll be lockplayered until a number increasing by random 50 thru 500 overflows. With the counter size increased to 32-bit, this takes far longer to do.

* Hamlet 2 - The Robotic tries loading extended names of char and palette files, but the files are truncated to 8.3. MZX truncates the filename load in DOS to 8.3, but 2.8+ does not, causing the chars and palettes to remain unloaded in one instance. Old copies of Zombie Quest and Hamlet did this too, and with much higher severity, but they have been fixed or repackaged.

* Technicolor Cheese Wedge - This game's battle engine uses counters with leading $ characters, including one simply called "$". These are interpreted as strings in the port.

* Torn Creation - Lack of wait 1s in the scrolling code causes the junk at the top of the boards to be visible when near the top of the board.

If you can think of any other game that will never be fixed in the 2.8+ line, please put it down here.

Wiki page for this thread.

This post has been edited by Terryn: 09 May 2020 - 12:08 AM
Reason for edit: The SFN issue was fixed in 2.92d.

angelic stream - shed sanguine - ill-adapt - avis - para/lyser - renaissance - dead tangent - phosphene blur - birth breeds death - ________ - painted glass - lagniappe

<Exophase> HES STEALING MAH AIRSHIP!!!!!!11111111
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#2 User is offline   Dr_Dos 

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 08:20 PM

most of those could probably fixed if somebody was willing to edit them and upload a port version.
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#3 User is offline   commodorejohn 

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 09:26 PM

Cans III has not worked since about 2.65, since the intro movie relies on the 32,767 limit.
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#4 User is offline   Pyro1588 

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 09:38 PM

i never had any problems with cans III... i'm pretty sure i got it to run in 2.69c
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#5 User is offline   Terryn 

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 09:58 PM

It doesn't rely on the limit if you look at the coding. In fact, outside of the port there's a remote chance (it's happened to me twice during betatesting 2.8, so I definitely looked into it) that this loop will overflow the local counter into the negatives and make the process take even longer.

In the port, a counter will ALWAYS be a number over 32700 (i.e. the break condition) if a number between 300 and 500 is added to any number under 32700. Therefore, the port makes this cinema work BETTER =o
angelic stream - shed sanguine - ill-adapt - avis - para/lyser - renaissance - dead tangent - phosphene blur - birth breeds death - ________ - painted glass - lagniappe

<Exophase> HES STEALING MAH AIRSHIP!!!!!!11111111
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#6 User is offline   commodorejohn 

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:24 PM

It happens to me every time I play it, so I just fixed it in the editor. When I visit my parents for the weekend, I'll post my fixed version if noone else has.

This post has been edited by commodorejohn: 25 August 2004 - 10:24 PM

<img src="http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5301/doom8jh.png" border="0" class="linked-sig-image" />
<img src="http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2655/quakemarinepz1.gif" border="0" class="linked-sig-image" />
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"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences."
- P.J. O'Rourke
--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
- C.S. Lewis
--------------------
This week, on LANCER PONDERS:
<lolilover> I notice alot of Japanese fiction involving kemono-mimi characters always has the main character saving an innocent animal and then the animal returns as a girl to reward him for his kindness.
<lolilover> Well there's a cat that is always wandering around in my backyard. Should I feed it in the hopes that one day a catgirl will show up at my door?
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#7 User is offline   paulguy 

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 05:13 PM

For Partition Magic, if you press F7, it should release you for some reason.


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#8 User is offline   Spectere 

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 08:41 PM

The reason that works is that F7 unlocks the player as well as giving them all of the stuff.

You should probably just rework that part of the game and re-release it, especially considering the port is the (DUN DUN DAAAA) FUTURE OF MZX.
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#9 User is offline   weasel 

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 11:27 PM

Here's one to add to the list: Telecrisis Chapter 1. The prison intro calls for "helmet~1.mod" when it should be calling for "helmetshake.mod".
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#10 User is offline   Dr Lancer-X 

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 07:13 AM

Those problems (with the extended filename stuff) could probably be all fixed through a modification to fsafetranslate, providing Exo's still using it (he should, ajs fixed it).
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#11 User is offline   ajs 

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 12:31 AM

Lancer,

It's not possible to fix these problems, as DOS's 8.3 compatibility shortening is dependent on the write time of the file to the filesystem. In fact, this should never have worked in DOS MZX because if somebody unzips long file names they could, potentially, be assigned different compatibility values.

The best we could add was a hack that attempted to match the first file containing the 6 unencoded letters in the compatibility filename, but this would be potentially insecure and unreliable. There is absolutely no way of reliably matching files if there is more than one 123456~N.ext file.

I believe these games should simply remain broken.

(By the way, fsafetranslate is working fine in MZX 2.80d, there are no known problems. I apologise for fucking it up in 2.80c).

Cheers,
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#12 User is offline   Exophase 

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 05:28 AM

Impact and Torn Creation (DoZ games I worked on) both have problems. Impact's problems are actually 2.69b+ and are due to conflicts with Local2 and Local3. It can be fixed by doing a search and replace to change them to LocalX and LocalY (is what I did). If you do this be sure to use something that works okay in binary, like vi (don't use notepad or edit!!)..

Torn Creation is broken (or rather, very slowed down) because of a lack of wait 1. Come to think of it, my other DoZ entries might be broken for this reason too, I have no idea. I haven't tried it here, so it might also be more of a problem on certain computers. You can fix it by putting a wait 1 in the main walking loop on every board.

EDIT: I tried it on this computer and it works fine, but the lack of wait 1 breaks the scroll-fix in this game (but not Soul Excursion?!)

Conclusion: I wasn't a very thoughtful Robotics coder :<

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#13 User is offline   Koji 

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 09:02 PM

Bad exo >:D
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#14 User is offline   T-Bone 

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Posted 06 September 2005 - 07:15 PM

Dr_Dos, on Aug 25 2004, 04:20 PM, said:

most of those could probably fixed if somebody was willing to edit them and upload a port version.

I'd be willing to update a few, just depends one which games people play more. Nobody wants to revert to an older version of MZX just to play an older game... well i don't wanna :p

But I'd be willing to do this favor for those that are the same way.
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#15 User is offline   Skylark 

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 05:46 AM

Can you please read the thread date? Please?

This thread is nearly an entire year old. A goddamn year.

Sure, it's pinned, but you don't even have an update. =(
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#16 User is offline   Dr Lancer-X 

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 06:18 AM

pfft, what do topic dates matter when you have to post every 3 or 4 minutes to fill up your post quota for the day (check out the guy's 'all posts by this member')
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#17 User is offline   Terryn 

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 12:58 AM

Thanks, zztman, for discovering another game not likely to be fixed. (Dungeons of Dismay)
angelic stream - shed sanguine - ill-adapt - avis - para/lyser - renaissance - dead tangent - phosphene blur - birth breeds death - ________ - painted glass - lagniappe

<Exophase> HES STEALING MAH AIRSHIP!!!!!!11111111
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#18 User is offline   zztman 

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 03:57 PM

Nightmare MZX Sans Chaos - The second computer in the Riddle Shock Room always sets off the anti-cheat protection in 2.8, regardless of whether or not you're cheating.

edit: Actually, it was built in 2.8... so what's with the error?

This post has been edited by zztman: 29 March 2006 - 04:11 PM

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#19 User is offline   Terryn 

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Posted 30 March 2006 - 12:07 AM

It's an obscure conflict with the built-in counter "rid<name>". You see, in 2.80 and above MZX assumes it means the Robot ID of the Robot named "dles solved" and gives out -1 (for "does not exist"). Highly problematic considering playing the game is contingent on the "Riddles solved" counter.

For some inexplicable reason, this does not happen in 2.70. As for whether it'd be fixed to allow cases such as this, I'm not sure at all. Exo's admitted to the difficulty of making it work like in 2.70. The problem is that changing the action could interfere with rid's use of detecting Robots by name.
angelic stream - shed sanguine - ill-adapt - avis - para/lyser - renaissance - dead tangent - phosphene blur - birth breeds death - ________ - painted glass - lagniappe

<Exophase> HES STEALING MAH AIRSHIP!!!!!!11111111
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#20 User is offline   asiekierka 

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 02:34 PM

I repair PartitionMagic pro, with no deleting ANY functionality! (just changed < 0 to > 32766 in that antiviral agent).

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Huh.
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#21 User is offline   zztman 

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 06:24 PM

Uhm... aren't I supposed to get helpers in Bernard the Bard when the town is under siege either time?

I think I'm stuck because none of the helper characters are showing up during the Zlabfrinz invasion...
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#22 User is offline   Val 

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 07:19 PM

My GOD. Why hasn't anyone mentioned how Insanifest is unbeatable in the port? In sidescrolling scenes, you can no longer jump! This is because it tries to go to labels in parentheses "like goto "(&gravitydir&)" and because of the new stuff added, it instead goes to "&gravitydir&" because the parentheses make it think it's doing an expression. This is bad :D

This post has been edited by Guy: 11 April 2006 - 07:30 PM

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#23 User is offline   Spectere 

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 07:26 PM

I seem to distinctly remember Insanifest working in the port...meh, dunno.
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#24 User is offline   Terryn 

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 07:56 PM

Well, it sort of does, sort of doesn't. See, it works IF you start it on the sidescrolling boards in the editor, but going from board [19] to [20] prevents jumping on board [20]. Curiously, this prevents jumping starting on board [20] EVEN IF you start there after previously starting on [19] and moving to [20]. This is not exclusive to the port; same thing happens in 2.70. It's because of the counters being re-parsed as expressions when you load the game in the editor.

Insanifest will work out of the box. You, apparently, messed with your copy.

Solution: Re-download Insanifest and don't play around with it in the editor or re-save it.
angelic stream - shed sanguine - ill-adapt - avis - para/lyser - renaissance - dead tangent - phosphene blur - birth breeds death - ________ - painted glass - lagniappe

<Exophase> HES STEALING MAH AIRSHIP!!!!!!11111111
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#25 User is offline   Spectere 

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 08:12 PM

Oh, expressions are parsed in the editor? I figured that they would be parsed at run-time. That would explain why my copy works fine, since I don't recall ever opening it in the editor, or at least saving it.

DAMN GUY, BREAKING INMATE'S SHIT.
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#26 User is offline   Exophase 

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 12:07 AM

Spectere, on Apr 11 2006, 03:12 PM, said:

Oh, expressions are parsed in the editor? I figured that they would be parsed at run-time. That would explain why my copy works fine, since I don't recall ever opening it in the editor, or at least saving it.

DAMN GUY, BREAKING INMATE'S SHIT.

No, they're parsed runtime, but the version number saved is what's used for compatability....

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#27 User is offline   zztman 

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 12:10 AM

Figures. One of Megazeux's landmark games is broken and no one cares. Ah well. :D
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#28 User is offline   Exophase 

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 12:31 AM

zztman, on Apr 11 2006, 07:10 PM, said:

Figures. One of Megazeux's landmark games is broken and no one cares. Ah well. :D

You know, some things take time to figure out. You could make yourself useful and actually deduce the problem instead of complaining about us not caring. Or you could at least elaborate a little bit more on exactly what you're talking about... It'd also help if you actually posted in the right thread; why would we be interested in fixing what's supposed to be a permanent compatability?

- Exo
~ ex0 has a kickass battle engine, without it you sux0rz! without it you sux0rz! ~

"The fact that I say I've one of the best, is called honesty." -Akwende
"Megazeux is not ment to be just ASCII, it is ANSI!" - T-bone6
"I hate it when you get all exo on me." - emalkay

Exophase can what Rubi-cant.
exoware is ware ur ware is exoware
ps. not loking 4 new membrs kthx
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#29 User is offline   Superfunk 

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 07:55 PM

After a battle starts in BLARGFRDRGMAHAG, the screen stays white.
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#30 User is offline   Terryn 

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 09:09 PM

funkbrat, on May 2 2006, 02:55 PM, said:

After a battle starts in BLARGFRDRGMAHAG, the screen stays white.

How should I phrase this... oh, yes!

DO NOT POST HERE UNLESS YOU KNOW YOUR ISSUE IS NEVER GOING TO BE FIXED IN THE PORT!!

In other news, I will look into this!

EDIT: It doesn't on my computer. do some more testing, please.
angelic stream - shed sanguine - ill-adapt - avis - para/lyser - renaissance - dead tangent - phosphene blur - birth breeds death - ________ - painted glass - lagniappe

<Exophase> HES STEALING MAH AIRSHIP!!!!!!11111111
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